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The E-Gobrecht

The Electronic Newsletter of the LIBERTY SEATED COLLECTORS CLUB

Liberty Seated
Collectors Club

2007 Volunne 3, Issue 10
October 2007 (Whole # 3 1 )

Update on Gobrecht Dollars

By John Dannreuther

[Editor’s introduction. Readers
who subscribe to Coin World may have
noticed the September 10, 2007 front
page article on Gobrecht Dollars by Eric
von Klinger. With apologies to Eric, here
is a summary for background. John
Dannreuther, research director of the Pro-
fessional Coin Grading Service (of which
he is a co-founder), “examined the evi-
dence and developed his findings at the
recent American Numismatic Association’s
World’s Fair of Money in Milwaukee.”

JD determined that “Designer
Christian Gobrecht’s name was not simply
“omitted” on 1838 and 1 839 silver dol-
lars, it was nearly entirely removed by
being scratched out on each of the two
obverse working dies.” The first Gobrecht
dollars dated 1836 had the raised letters
“C. GOBRECHT F. (F. is Latin for FECIT =
made it) either on the base of the rock
above the date or in the field below the
rock above the date. These letters were
removed on issues of later dates.

“Obverse Working dies for Gobrecht dol-
lars dated 1838 and 1839 - one for each
year - were made from the same master
hub or die, with the addition of the date
and effacement of the Gobrecht credit,
Dannreuther said.” At this point, we tran-
sition into an update of this information
by John Dannreuther as provided to me.J

After further examination of
the removed name on the base of the
1838 and 1839 Gobrecht [dollar]s, I
believe it was first removed in the hub
stage (I think the working hub, but it
could have been the master hub, but
that would have required a new mas-
ter die to be prepared - if done in the
working hub, dies could be immedi-
ately prepared).

The concave nature of the base
after the name was removed indicates
that the name was scooped out of the
hub, then the dies were prepared.
Further hand finishing of each working
die resulted in the raised graver lines
seen on the base.

Thus, the different remnants
seen for the 1 838 and 1 839. There is
virtually nothing seen on the 1838,
while the 1839 has ghost letters and
remnants at the bottom of the base of
the "stress" lines from punching the
name into the hub. At first, I thought
these raised areas were leftover from
the letters, which in a sense they are,
but actually are the "pushed up" metal
from the letter punching.

Continued on page 5

What’s Inside this issue?

Auction News 2

by Jim Gray

Question of the Month 3,4

by Jim Gray

Stack's 72nd Anniver- 4

sary Sale

Update on Gobrecht 5

Dollars continued

How much longer will 6
this die lost?

I868PGGSPR65GAM 1
dime

1 853 Seated Dollar with 1
Rays?

The World's Most Valu- 8
able Numismatic Item -
Engraved by Christian
Gobrecht

The Samuel Moore Let- 9
ters: Port 1 1

Call for Nominations to 9
the LSCC Hall of Fame

Subscriber Correspon- 1 0
dence and Miscellaneous

Advertisements 1 0

LSCC Information 1 1

Mark Your Calendar 1 1

The E-Gobrecht is an award winning electronic publication of the Liberty Seated Collectors Club (LSCC). The LSCC
is a non-profit organization dedicated to the attributions of the Liberty Seated Coin series. The LSCC provides the informa-
tion contained in this email newsletter from various sources free of charge as a general service to the membership and others
with this numismatic interest. You do not have to be a LSCC member to benefit from this newsletter; subscription to the E-
Gobrecht is available to anyone. All disclaimers are in effect as the completeness and/or accuracy of the information contained
herein cannot be completely verified. Contact information is included at the end of this newsletter.

Page 2

The E-Gobrecht

Auction News

By Jim Gray

After a very busy August, auction activity
diminished in September with only three sales.

The Goldberg pre-Long Beach sale featured a
very nice 1 843-0 dime in XF-40, which was original
gray with a sharp obverse and a rather flat wreath.
This coin did not sell.

An 1862-S quarter in AU-53 sold for $1,850
and an 1864-S quarter in VF-25 went for $1,150.

The Stack’s Autumn sale featured an 1840-0
with drapery half dime in AU-58, which was well
struck with attractive toning, but did not sell. An
inferior piece in AU-55 with a flatter strike and some
marks sold for $2,185.

An 1859-S dime in AU-55, which was well
struck and attractive with a few scattered marks, did
not sell. An 1872-CC dime with AU details, but
with porosity and cleaning, went for $8,625.

An 1873-CC with arrows half in VG-8 sold
for $414 while an 1874-CC in VF, but hairlined and
dull, sold for $368.

The Heritage sale featured a decent 1844-0
half dime in XF-45 for $1,725 and a well worn 1844
dime in F-15 for $575. A very nice 1851-0 quarter
with natural gray toning in XF-40 realized $2,012.

An 1846 over horizontal 6 half dollar in AU-
58 with mottled toning realized $2,990 whereas a
sharp, natural gray 1857-S half in AU-53 hammered
for $2,185. An 1870-CC half in VF-25, with the
BER and most of the T gone, still went for $8050. A
bright 1873-CC arrows half in AU-50 sold for
$2,530 with an AU-58 example of the same date
with dusky toning going for $4,025. A well toned
1874-CC in AU-53 went for $5,462.

An 1851 original dollar in MS-62 with natu-
ral toning soared to $51,750. An attractive MS-63
1854 dollar was bid to $9,200 whereas an 1856 dol-
lar in AU-55, which had been dipped and had a soft
strike on the upper obverse and eagle's left leg, only
sold for $3,451.

An 1872-CC dollar in VG-8 with some
marks, but a wholesome appearance, went for $2,012
and an 1873-CC dollar in XF-40 with good detail,
but cleaned and tooled, still sold for $12,650.

Auction Donations Wanted. The LSCC will conduct an auction at the club’s meeting of the Balti-
more Winter Coin and Currency Convention in November 2007. Proceeds from the auction will benefit the
Liberty Seated Collectors Club treasury to help ever increasing printing and postage costs. People may
bring their material directly to the Baltimore LSCC meeting. Anything you think would be "interesting" to
the bidders is acceptable. Already included items include the 72 page "prototype" of the Gobrecht Journal
[shown at the annual meeting in Milwaukee] that John McCloskey had printed to see if we could go to a
larger size. Additional items include an original Gobrecht Journal Issue # 22, a few seated dimes, and a
seated half dollar. Please try to attend and bring something to auction.

2007 Volume 3, Issue 10 (October 2007)

Page 3

Question of the Month

By Jim Gray

This forum hopes to increase collector interaction and correspondence. Your participation is welcomed and
encouraged. Send your replies and comments to the E-Gobrecht Editor at wb8cpy@arrl.net .

Last Month^s (September) Question

Which of the original 5 Seated series is the least difficult to complete in MS-60 or better?

From Dennis Fortier: I got interested in the answer to this question so I decided to take a stab at it. First it was
necessary to decide the parameters and the reference to use in answering it. MS- 60 was the lowest and least costly
level possible so I used it for my hypothetical set. The Red Book seemed the best historical reference to use. Red
Book enjoys the greatest acceptance and defines the major varieties most accepted by collectors at large. Certain is-
sues were necessarily eliminated as uncollectible (only a few examples in existence) and others were necessary to
price below MS as Red Book had no figures for them. Whether this is because there are no known examples, or sim-
ply insufficient data for pricing is unclear. Also this worksheet does not attempt to include the many varieties we Lib-
erty Seated Collectors love. Here is the raw data:

Denomination Number of Issues Total Price Ave per Coin

Half Dime

$58,625

$814

Dime

124

$153,770

$1,240

Quarter

115

$420,120

$3,653

Half Dollar

125

$325,900

$2,607

Dollar

$426,350

$9,474

Even a quick glance will tell you that the Half Dimes series wins both for total cost and second fewest pieces
needed to complete the set. This is not to say that completing such a set is less than a great accomplishment. Com-
pleting any Seated series in MS is something to be very proud of. The dollar wins the award for most costly at
$426,350, with only 45 issues needed, and an average cost of $9,474 each. The most difficult overall would seem to
the Quarter series. Only $6,230 cheaper than the Dollar series, but nearly three times as many issues (1 15) needed to
complete the set. This exercise does not take into account the necessity of buying higher MS grades that are available
to complete a set and the additional cost for them. The only issues that seem to still be within reach of the average
collector are the Half Dime and Dime. After that the jump is more than double the cost.

From Jim Gray: To answer my own question about which Seated series can be completed in mint state or better, I
consulted auction catalogues from 1980 to the present for complete date, type, and mint mark sets and also examined
the PCGS and NGC registry sets.

Continued on page 4.

Page 4

The E-Gobrecht

Auction News continued from page 3.

The best half dime set sold at auction was the Levine collection sold by Bowers & Merena in April, 1986.
This collection was complete, but had nine circulated coins, most of which were AU or better. The EHG registry set
of half dimes is absolutely magnificent with most of the coins being MS-66 or 67 and the two lowest graded coins in
the set being the 1846 at MS-62 and the 1840-0 with drapery in MS-63. This set is complete with an average grade in
excess of MS-65 and by far the finest set ever assembled.

The best dime set sold at auction was the extraordinary set compiled by Alan Lovejoy, which was sold by
Stacks in October, 1990. This collection was also complete by date, type and mintmark and had three circulated
coins. The 1858-S and the 1872-CC were both strong All's and the 1859-S was an AU with some slide marks and
obverse roughness. This set was eclipsed in quality by the EHG dime registry set, which was complete in mint state
except for the 1872-CC which was XE45. Once again, there are many MS -66 and 67 coins in this set and it is by far
the finest known.

The Eliasberg Seated quarter collection had choice mint state examples of the 1870-CC, 1871-CC, 1871-S,
1872-CC, 1872-S, 1873-CC no arrows, and 1873-CC. However, there were eleven circulated coins with the 1842-0
small date, the 1860-S and 1861-S being in fine grade. The EHG registry set collection is about 90% complete and
contains a number of wonderful coins, including the unique mint state 1860-S from my collection.

The nicest half dollar collections were the Pryor collection sold by Bowers & Merena in 1996 and the Queller
collection sold by Stacks in October, 2002. Both of these collections were totally complete by date, type, and mint-
mark. The Pryor collection was mint state except for AU examples of the 1842-0 small date and the 1856-S. The
Queller collection had two circulated coins, the 1840-0 in AU and an 1842-0 small date in XE. These collections
contained the two finest 1870-CC half dollars, with the Pryor coin being a little more attractive than the Queller
piece.

A number of complete sets of Liberty Seated dollars have been sold at auctions, but none were close to being
fully mint state. That honor belongs to the fabulous Legend collection registry set of Seated dollars, which has an
average grade of 64.39, with all the coins being MS-63 or finer, except the James A. Stack 1870-S dollar which is an
MS-62. This incomparable collection was assembled in less than five years and is by far the finest known dollar col-
lection ever assembled.

Prior to doing my research, I was of the opinion that half dimes and dollars would be the least difficult to
complete in mint state and this was bom out by my research. Dimes and half dollars could feasibly be completed in
mint state, but quarters cannot be completed because some dates have no mint state pieces known to the collection
fraternity.

Thus the answer to my question is: half dimes and dollars.

Stack^S 72nd Anniversary Sale. For those of you who haven't notice, the upcoming Stack’s 72nd
Anniversary Sale (October 16-17, 2007) has many nice lots of Liberty Seated material. Included are an im-
pressive run of dollars including nine Gobrecht dollars, a VF 1870-S (one of about 12 known), two 1873-
CCs, three 1871-CCs, and many others. There is an PCGS-64 1876-CC twenty cents classic rarity and a
very nice selection of half dollars including some rare varieties (1842-0 small date, 1847/1846, 1873 NA
Open 3). Dimes are heavily represented with many dates, varieties, and mints including high grade prob-
lem free Carson City lots. Quarters have a good run including a rare 1851-0 VF broadstruck coin. Half
dimes have many multiple coin lots with a very nice 1837 Large date, 1846, and Proof 1859. On-line lot
viewing and bidding can be accessed at www.stacks.com or at 1-800-582-2580.

2007 Volume 3, Issue 10 (October 2007)

Page 5

Continued from page I

[The photos below are of]... an 1839 base and a couple of 1836 bases with the "stress" lines. You can
see the raised areas at the bottom of the base of the 1839 matches the raised, "stress" areas of the 1836.

Note: Stress lines from punching (transferred from the working hub to the
working die and then to the coins); these stress lines are seen at the bottom of
the base on the 1839; ghost letters from the removed name are seen only for
1 839 high grade examples. q b

Above: 1 839 Gobrecht dollar base

Above: 1 836 Gobrecht dollar base

I have also found an Original 1838 Gobrecht dollar! How to determine the Original 1838 Go-
brecht [dollarjs from Restrikes will be in Part 2 of my upcoming Gobrecht [dollar] article. Part I will be in
the October [2007] issue of the "Rare Coin Market Report."

The 1 839 [photograph] is great, but the other ones are not so hot. Best I could do right now, but
am looking for better ones and might have later this week. If so, I will send a new one.

Page 6

The E-Gobrecht

How much longer will this die last?

by Bill Bugert

The photograph below is of a very late riage, this die is paired with a cracked obverse
reverse die state of a no motto half dollar. This die. Do you have a later die state of this re-
die has no less than 17 heavy die cracks and it verse die? Can you guess which date this is?
is a wonder if the die eventually broke into No prizes are offered but email your answer to

many pieces. This die can also be found with the Editor at wb8cpy@arrl.net. The answer will

few cracks in earlier die states. In this die mar- be in the next issue of the E-Gobrecht

2007 Volume 3, Issue 10 (October 2007)

Page 1

From Jason
Feldman; I want to
share the purchase
of the only certified
1 868 Deep Cameo
certified by either
service. It also hap-
pens to be a blun-
dered-date (Bases of
two extra I ’s show
up in the rock above
the 1 8). [Editor, nice
coin!]

1853 Seated Dollar with Rays?

By Len Augsburger

This illustration, lot 1353 in
the upcoming H.R. Harmer sale of the
American Bank Note Company archives, de-
picts an artist's rendition of an 1853 with rays
seated dollar. This particular image might
have been used on a banknote, stock certifi-
cate, or other paper item. The artist was
clearly familiar with the quarter and half dol-
lars of the same year and perhaps assumed
that dollars came likewise. The quarters and
halves were slightly debased in 1853 in order
to get them back into circulation, while the
dollar remained unchanged, thus there was
no need to identify a weight change in the dollar via the arrows and rays as used on quarter and half
dollars.

In a similar vein. Rich Uhrich [http://www.richuhrichcoins.com] currently has in inventory an
1853 arrows and rays quarter with the arrows effaced, possibly a dubious attempt at counterfeiting an
1853 "no arrows" quarter, since the reverse is of course a dead giveaway. Rich catalogs the coin as
"1853 Quarter, arrows removed, with rays".

Page 8

The E-Gobrecht

The World's Most Valuable Numismatic Item -

Engraved by Christian Gobrecht

By Len Augsburger

On the cover of the re-
cent Co/n l/ltirld (September
24th), we see George Washing-
ton's "Order of the Cincinnati"
medal, to be sold by Sotheby's,
with an estimate of up to $10M.
The Order of the Cincinnati was
an organization of officers in the
American and French military, of
which Washington himself was
the first President. Washing-
ton's Order of the Cincinnati
medal has come through the
Lafayette family, Washington
himself having no direct descen-
dants. While the medal itself
was not engraved by Christian
Gobrecht (credit for that goes to
Pierre L'Enfant, who is also cred-
ited with the street plan for
Washington, D.C.), Gobrecht did
do three engravings of Washing-
ton, one of which depicts the
Order of the Cincinnati medal on
Washington's lapel (see at-
tached). The Co/n World article
also notes that a painting ex-
ists depicting Lafayette with the
medal, who was no doubt quite
proud of the fact that the Wash-
ington family had chosen to gift
it to him some time after Wash-
ington's death.

2007 Volume 3, Issue 10 (October 2007)

Page 9

The Samuel Moore Letters: Part II

By Len Augsburger

In last month's episode, the outgoing Mint Director, Samuel Moore, was found lobbying the incom-
ing Director, Robert M. Patterson, and the Secretary of the Treasury, Levi Woodbury, to hire Christian Go-
brecht as a second engraver. This month we look at the second letter of the series, from Moore to Patterson,
dated June 26, 1835. At this point President Jackson has approved the hiring of a second engraver, and now
Moore attempts to finalize the details of Gobrecht's appointment.

"Received two days since from the Secretary of the Treasury a reply to my communication of the 16th
[Moore had written to both Secretary Woodbury and Patterson on July 16th, 1835] concerning the Presi-
dent's [Andrew Jackson] approval of the arrangement therein recommended having in view the employment
of another Engraver. A reply is enclosed.

The proposed grade of compensation being [unclear] approved by the President, I should feel at liberty to
proffer specific terms to Mr. Gobrecht on which he would safely announce to his present employer the ter-
mination of their connection by the first of January [1836] relying on being from that period attached to the
Mint at a compensation of $1500 [annually]. It seems, however, proper that this should be deferred until
you arrive and especially I must first be assured that I have not misconceived your opinion in regard to Mr.
Gobrecht before holding any further conference with him touching the employment in question. On this
point please drop me a line - 1 know you can have his [unclear]. And if it shall be conformable to your im-
pressions, I will acquaint him with the probability of his being invited into the Mint, and refer him thereaf-
ter to yourself.

The terms 'assistant Engraver' as employed by Mr. Woodbury without however appearing to lay any stress
on them, as indicating a distinctive station. Certainly the conception of any inferiority of rank, would be
very unsupportable[?] to Mr. G[obrecht] and this it will be proper to exclude which can easily be done. No
inferiority in this respect was within my contemplation in the arrangement proposed. [The salient point
here is whether Gobrecht was to be hired as "assistant" or "second" engraver - clearly it was Moore's inten-
tion that Gobrecht be hired as an equal to the current engraver William Kneass.]

It had seemed to me probable that during your [unclear] conferences with the Sec. of the Treasury at Wash-
ington he might acquaint you particularly with the views presented in my letter to him of the 16th [July],
and this, notwithstanding the President's prompt decision in regard to the Engraver, he will perhaps still do,
if a convenient session[?] should occur. [Moore now moves on to unrelated points.]"

Call for Nominations to the LSCC Hall of Fame. The LSCC Hall of Fame procedures were
approved at the Annual Meeting in August. In accordance with this document, the committee is accepting
nominations for inductance into the first Hall of Fame. Eligible nominees include club members who have
made significant contributions to expanding the literature on Seated coinage, who have built an important
collection of Liberty Seated coinage, or who have served in a leadership position while contributing to the
success of LSCC. Please send your nominations to Bill Bugert at wb8cpy@arrl.net and include the nomi-
nee’s name and a short narrative on why you feel this individual should receive this honor.

Page 10

The E-Gobrecht

Subscriber Correspondence

From Dennis Fortier: Bill, I want to congratulate you on your election to Vice President of the LSCC.

The members were fortunate to have two excellent candidates to choose from. Best wishes for

success this year.

From Paul Kluth: ... the E-Gob looks great under the new format! Looks like it may take more of your
time to prepare? Very nice!

From Paul Stolzer: Thanks for continuing to send E - G.l enjoy it very much. As for the format, I much
prefer the new one. Hope the feedback is helpful.

From Harry Cabluck: Very nice, your new page layout in E-Gobrecht looks great. Much easier to read
the two column pages. Keep up the good work. There is always something to look forward to
reading.

From John Frost: I think the new format is fantastic. Great job, and thanks for all your hard work!

From Mark Benvenuto: I print it no matter what format you use. That being said, this new look is a sharp
one! It looks really good. Please, by all means, keep up the good work.

From Michael Luck: SUPERB !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and fantastic information , a great important
read.

From Len Augshurger: This new format rocks. There is a little bit of something here for everyone.

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